Consumerism is basically all about "keepting up with the Joneses" in which case you'll never be happy as there will always be someone with more wealth or a facnier car or nicer house than you. Some of it is conspicuous consumption i.e. a signal to others that "you've made it" or whatever. Some of it is misguided belief that possessions will inherently bring happiness. Sure it's great to have nice stuff but the actual utility of a 70" TV or a luxury car is bugger all compared to average things.
On the job front some people do find meaning in their career but I think most people just end up in careers by accident or ones that help pay the bills. Personally I don't really love what I do but it's not too bad and I get well remunerated. It's not my identity though and it's way the down the list of things I'd tell someone about me if they wanted to get to know me. by contrast my mum was a doctor and when she retired she suddenly felt she had no identity. For so long she'd had been the doctor and was taking care of others and she really loved the vocation (even with the stress). Without that she struggled for a bit figuring out who she was in retirement and what to focus on.
Ultimately though most people find happiness via their relationships. Family and friends. Helping one another through life and creating memories. I doubt many people think about their nice car on their deathbed. Guaranteed it's those closest to them they are thinking about.
Happiness is a fascinating topic and if you want to go back in history it was the essential question the Greek philosophers were trying to answer. How to live a happy life. That was it. That was what they believed was the ultimate question to answer.
Agree re consumerism, and perhaps showing off/keeping up with the joneses relives stress? Why do you think some people caught up trying to impress others? While others couldn’t give fuck?
I feel your mum on the lack of identity post retirement. All my identity has become Ben the footballer. Took a while to realise that having your whole identity tied to what you do work for isn’t healthy, and judging by what you said, and would say your aren’t a workaholic?
Couldn’t agree more relationships. Had to trim a few of mine of the years to make more space for the ones who truly matter
Bit of human nature in the Jonses stuff. That animal brain stuff of wanting to be seen as successful (whatever than means). Not giving a fuck comes with experience mostly. Sure some younger folk will be confident enough to not care about other people's opinions of them but they are few and far between. As you get older you get the experience to know what actually matters. Also as you take on responsibility and have a family you have to focus on what's most important as you literally don't have time for anything else. Roll all that together and you don't have time to care about keeping up appearances etc.
Re being a workaholic a big no from me. I'm not lazy otherwise I wouldn't have got to where I am today. But I certainly know what motivates me most and it's not work (as in what I do for a living). I manage that by making myself accountable to others as work. Promise to do something by X date or create Y asset etc. Nothing motivates like a deadline after all! My work isn't boring by any means but I don't leap out of bed in the morning looking forward to it. Always on the look out for an alternate gig which I'd really enjoy but will also pay the bills. Tough to find. For instance I love history but ain't no jobs in that really!
HuwT, where do you think this consumerism culture has stemmed from and why is it taking over our lives?
You've highlighted the importance of taking on multiple identities and not just being defined by your job. I'm more conscious of it now too. Usually when you first meet someone, one of the first questions they will ask is what you do for a living. I have in the past devalued my own profession by saying oh I'm "Just" a massage therapist and then after ask myself why do I say Just a massage therapist? I am a person, who does massage therapy, but I also read books and go to the gym and go on hikes.
Very good question and I'm not an economic historian so couldn't really tell you. One thing I do know though is that the obsession with growth and GDP is a relatively new thing. GDP was only actually regularly measured from the mid 1950s so throughout all of human history before that governments weren't measured on this very very broad and general measure. The assumption was that more growth = wealth = people better off. This works to an extent when you are raising people out of poverty but beyond that it doesn't measure happiness at all. Where consumerism stemmed from I'd say it's always been there a little bit in human nature but society advanced to a stage where consumer goods, beyond necessities, were in abundance. Probably after WW2 this was the first time in history it was so. Add to that the fact that business people saw you could get very rich from consumerism and they start feeding the cycle and modern advertising is invented and market research and food science etc all directed at getting people to consume more. It may be at it's peak though as people are starting to realise it doesn't really help. We aren't the only people having this sort of conversation!
Re the multiple identities I think the common question of "what do you do for a living" is just a very easy and quick way to establish some rapport of commonality. Work takes up a large portion of someone's life so it's an easy non-offensive conversation to have. You are doing yourself a disservice with "just". Can say "I run a sports science recovery business" or something if people want to focus on work :D Maybe we can start a movement where you don't ask people what they do for a job. Ask them what they enjoy doing first!
This has been a great discussion :) Thanks for your insightful response :D.
I agree, maybe simply asking what are your interests and that leaves it open for people to discuss whatever part of themselves they feel suits the situation.
Incredible discussion. Humans have made some poor decisions over the years. I just hope we can learn from those mistakes and not repeat them or make them worse
Most of us set goals. We have been taught to be ambitious and to be achievers. We continually chase and we get tired. I often asked question what will make me really happy. I truly can't find the answer. I guess that's pretty sad.
Changing our mindset to become content is a huge challenge.
Best wishes and I'm still looking forward to that drink.
One of the saddest comments I read on facebook this week was a discussion around teens getting casual work. I made a comment that it's important for teens to work, as long as they maintain a balance of social, school and sporting life. A reply I got was "Money is more important in life than anything else". This is our culture and it's making us miserable.
Beats me Ben. Was it the white supremacy that kicked it all off? Taking land that wasn't theirs because they had white skin, big boats and guns?
Has it always been there but is getting worse because the more money people have the more they want?
Is it the marketing constantly in our faces showing us things we should buy but don't necessarily need, but our brain decides we want them anyway?
Is it being judged on your occupation and the car you drive? Rather than acknowledging all jobs are needed. I remember facing that in childhood when kids asked you what your parents did for work, my dad an accountant and my mum, a home maker, the judgemental looks and question of but what does your mum do all day?
Is it the cost of living keeping people in meaningless jobs that pay their bills that has then caused us to value earning money over living a meaningful life?
Not sure about your first two points, but the cost of living wouldn’t go up if people stopped buying so much stuff! Same with marketing. Marketers only do it because people buy buy buy. And how do people know they are being judged for the car the drive or their job? I think that more a case of having low self esteem and thinking people are judging them, because that’s not true cos most people are too busy being caught up in their own shit to care what car other people drive. People are not being judged as much as they think.
Why are people living in third world countries happier than we are? (Based in the high depression rate in developed Australia compared with developing countries)
I agree that people aren't judged as much as they think they are, but I have definitely heard people being judged because of the car they drive or seen the opposite where the assumption is made that someone who drives a Mercedes is rich (they likely just have a very expensive car loan). Or the judgement I faced in school from other kids because my mum didn't have a "real job".
The more material things we have, the more things we have to maintain, look after, and ultimately stress over.
Less is more
Consumerism is basically all about "keepting up with the Joneses" in which case you'll never be happy as there will always be someone with more wealth or a facnier car or nicer house than you. Some of it is conspicuous consumption i.e. a signal to others that "you've made it" or whatever. Some of it is misguided belief that possessions will inherently bring happiness. Sure it's great to have nice stuff but the actual utility of a 70" TV or a luxury car is bugger all compared to average things.
On the job front some people do find meaning in their career but I think most people just end up in careers by accident or ones that help pay the bills. Personally I don't really love what I do but it's not too bad and I get well remunerated. It's not my identity though and it's way the down the list of things I'd tell someone about me if they wanted to get to know me. by contrast my mum was a doctor and when she retired she suddenly felt she had no identity. For so long she'd had been the doctor and was taking care of others and she really loved the vocation (even with the stress). Without that she struggled for a bit figuring out who she was in retirement and what to focus on.
Ultimately though most people find happiness via their relationships. Family and friends. Helping one another through life and creating memories. I doubt many people think about their nice car on their deathbed. Guaranteed it's those closest to them they are thinking about.
Happiness is a fascinating topic and if you want to go back in history it was the essential question the Greek philosophers were trying to answer. How to live a happy life. That was it. That was what they believed was the ultimate question to answer.
Agree re consumerism, and perhaps showing off/keeping up with the joneses relives stress? Why do you think some people caught up trying to impress others? While others couldn’t give fuck?
I feel your mum on the lack of identity post retirement. All my identity has become Ben the footballer. Took a while to realise that having your whole identity tied to what you do work for isn’t healthy, and judging by what you said, and would say your aren’t a workaholic?
Couldn’t agree more relationships. Had to trim a few of mine of the years to make more space for the ones who truly matter
Bit of human nature in the Jonses stuff. That animal brain stuff of wanting to be seen as successful (whatever than means). Not giving a fuck comes with experience mostly. Sure some younger folk will be confident enough to not care about other people's opinions of them but they are few and far between. As you get older you get the experience to know what actually matters. Also as you take on responsibility and have a family you have to focus on what's most important as you literally don't have time for anything else. Roll all that together and you don't have time to care about keeping up appearances etc.
Re being a workaholic a big no from me. I'm not lazy otherwise I wouldn't have got to where I am today. But I certainly know what motivates me most and it's not work (as in what I do for a living). I manage that by making myself accountable to others as work. Promise to do something by X date or create Y asset etc. Nothing motivates like a deadline after all! My work isn't boring by any means but I don't leap out of bed in the morning looking forward to it. Always on the look out for an alternate gig which I'd really enjoy but will also pay the bills. Tough to find. For instance I love history but ain't no jobs in that really!
Have you got some time next week to have a chat?
HuwT, where do you think this consumerism culture has stemmed from and why is it taking over our lives?
You've highlighted the importance of taking on multiple identities and not just being defined by your job. I'm more conscious of it now too. Usually when you first meet someone, one of the first questions they will ask is what you do for a living. I have in the past devalued my own profession by saying oh I'm "Just" a massage therapist and then after ask myself why do I say Just a massage therapist? I am a person, who does massage therapy, but I also read books and go to the gym and go on hikes.
Very good question and I'm not an economic historian so couldn't really tell you. One thing I do know though is that the obsession with growth and GDP is a relatively new thing. GDP was only actually regularly measured from the mid 1950s so throughout all of human history before that governments weren't measured on this very very broad and general measure. The assumption was that more growth = wealth = people better off. This works to an extent when you are raising people out of poverty but beyond that it doesn't measure happiness at all. Where consumerism stemmed from I'd say it's always been there a little bit in human nature but society advanced to a stage where consumer goods, beyond necessities, were in abundance. Probably after WW2 this was the first time in history it was so. Add to that the fact that business people saw you could get very rich from consumerism and they start feeding the cycle and modern advertising is invented and market research and food science etc all directed at getting people to consume more. It may be at it's peak though as people are starting to realise it doesn't really help. We aren't the only people having this sort of conversation!
Re the multiple identities I think the common question of "what do you do for a living" is just a very easy and quick way to establish some rapport of commonality. Work takes up a large portion of someone's life so it's an easy non-offensive conversation to have. You are doing yourself a disservice with "just". Can say "I run a sports science recovery business" or something if people want to focus on work :D Maybe we can start a movement where you don't ask people what they do for a job. Ask them what they enjoy doing first!
This has been a great discussion :) Thanks for your insightful response :D.
I agree, maybe simply asking what are your interests and that leaves it open for people to discuss whatever part of themselves they feel suits the situation.
Who are you? Not what do you do!
Incredible discussion. Humans have made some poor decisions over the years. I just hope we can learn from those mistakes and not repeat them or make them worse
Ben
Most of us set goals. We have been taught to be ambitious and to be achievers. We continually chase and we get tired. I often asked question what will make me really happy. I truly can't find the answer. I guess that's pretty sad.
Changing our mindset to become content is a huge challenge.
Best wishes and I'm still looking forward to that drink.
I’m very much looking forward to that drink too.
I keep talking about it. It will happen.
Cheers
Society values money over meaning and purpose.
One of the saddest comments I read on facebook this week was a discussion around teens getting casual work. I made a comment that it's important for teens to work, as long as they maintain a balance of social, school and sporting life. A reply I got was "Money is more important in life than anything else". This is our culture and it's making us miserable.
Why has parts of our culture become like that?
Beats me Ben. Was it the white supremacy that kicked it all off? Taking land that wasn't theirs because they had white skin, big boats and guns?
Has it always been there but is getting worse because the more money people have the more they want?
Is it the marketing constantly in our faces showing us things we should buy but don't necessarily need, but our brain decides we want them anyway?
Is it being judged on your occupation and the car you drive? Rather than acknowledging all jobs are needed. I remember facing that in childhood when kids asked you what your parents did for work, my dad an accountant and my mum, a home maker, the judgemental looks and question of but what does your mum do all day?
Is it the cost of living keeping people in meaningless jobs that pay their bills that has then caused us to value earning money over living a meaningful life?
Not sure about your first two points, but the cost of living wouldn’t go up if people stopped buying so much stuff! Same with marketing. Marketers only do it because people buy buy buy. And how do people know they are being judged for the car the drive or their job? I think that more a case of having low self esteem and thinking people are judging them, because that’s not true cos most people are too busy being caught up in their own shit to care what car other people drive. People are not being judged as much as they think.
Why do you think we are buying so much stuff?
Why are people living in third world countries happier than we are? (Based in the high depression rate in developed Australia compared with developing countries)
I agree that people aren't judged as much as they think they are, but I have definitely heard people being judged because of the car they drive or seen the opposite where the assumption is made that someone who drives a Mercedes is rich (they likely just have a very expensive car loan). Or the judgement I faced in school from other kids because my mum didn't have a "real job".
I heard a term recently called “memetic desire” which states:
“Most people don’t know what they want in life , so they just copy what everyone else’s doing.”
Makes sense to me.
I think people also worry way too much what other people say
Haha I like that!