It'd be remiss of RA not to explore all options. More than anything else in this discussion I think people that people need to understand this isn't an either/or situation. Can do a domestic comp and some sort TT/Pacific comp as well. After the way NZR treated RA with the generous offer to take 2 teams into "their" comp you can understand RA is a bit cheesed off.
Good point Huw and I often fall into the category of "black or white" thinking. Let's hope they strike a balanced broadcast deal quickly, and get on with things.
For me, a stupid threat that Australian Rugby could never carry out. We need to continue to challenge our players against the best and we don't have the depth in Australia. Unfortunately we have nothing to compete with their ITM Cup, and that hurts our possible TV revenue. About time we suck it up and truly work on building grass roots rugby as that will flow all the way to Wallabies.
Benny, I think you're asking the wrong question. I think the right question is "why are Australian Rugby's top brass threatening to tear up Super Rugby".
For me, it's not about the rugby, but rather about commercial brinksmanship with NZR. Australian Rugby want more out of the partnership in terms of broadcast revenue. Previously, with SA in the competition, all broadcast revenue was put into a 'pot' and split equally between the nations. Now, NZR are pocketing approximately ~$90M from their Sky deal whereas RA is only taking home ~$30M from the broadcast deal with Stan. NZR would argue that all is fair in love and war and $90M is the fair market price they've achieved on the open market. This argument is somewhat flawed as Australia contributes equally to the content generation.
Hamish McLennan is correct in saying that NZR have treated us poorly as partners. RA are just putting the boxing gloves to get a better commercial outcome - which will help drive up the $$$ for potential private equity investment.
Wratey! How are you mate? Spot on and TV deal should be based on eyeballs from the corresponding countries and not by on field results. You can't say a country 1/8 our size brought 75% of the value to Super Rugby???
I agree community rugby needs to be the focus, but I'm not sure how the game funds all the flights to NZ. The game can barely afford for to fly 5 super sides over, and cutting travel costs was the primary reason behind SA, ARG and Japan all being culled.
Walking about from NZ rugby will kill Australian Rugby. A sport that's already struggling in this country. 2022 was much better than 2021 in terms of our competitiveness against the NZ sides, but quite frankly we need NZ to become better footballers. It's about creating a game that people want to watch, that should be the priority. The Super Rugby AU final attracted many fans because we had gone months without live sport to watch. Who wouldn't turn up to watch some live sport after being in lock down. Put on an all Australian game of rugby now and see how many fans turn up? Also have a look at the attendance at the upcoming test matches.
As a die hard rugby fan, I can't figure out why fans aren't attending matches. I love my team and I will watch regardless, but the attendance of thee Brumbies home QF was very low. I'm glad I was at the 2004 home final against the Crusaders, because that atmosphere was unreal, the best crowd I have ever been part of. What does rugby need to do to get that back? I don't think the answer is walking away from super rugby and creating their own domestic competitive. Australian rugby does not have that depth.
Hey Clare! Good point re live sport starvation leading to a big Super Rugby AU final crowd. I don't think walking away is the answer, but not fighting for a fair share of the pie isn't either! But I do question how we've gone about it though.
PS: I was the in crowd too! Where were you sitting? I was behind the goals at the opposite end to where all the 1st half tries where being scored.
RA can chase a fair share differently, not that I have any suggestions as to what that is. Super W is at risk of losing players to the NRLW due to wages, so something needs to be done there too. Is it a lack of sponsorship, or do businesses not see the value in investing in Australian rugby? If that's the case, we need to find out why. Just because we don't have the depth currently doesn't mean we can't create it either. I thought the NRC competition significantly linked club rugby and super rugby. We lose many of our players to overseas clubs for financial reasons, but are we creating enough opportunities for the players who are in Australia?
I was lucky to be in a sideline seat, so I had a good view of all tries and had a devastated Crusaders fan behind me who was in tears after the Brumbies 20 min try haul.
Totally agree that we're in deep trouble of losing Super W players to wages from league, but that makes it all the more important we fight for a bigger slice of the broadcasting pie! More money for Super W and club rugby!!
PS: there wasn't many happy crusaders fans that night. I remember I had to go to work after the game (a doorman at In Blue) and a young Dan Carter came in. Think I said something to him along of the lines of "tough luck mate. you'll have your turn". hahahaha
I agree they should pull themselves together, but I think Aus Rugby has woken up and realised we're getting dudded! And I hear what your saying re Japan, ZA and Arg, but all the travel costs just weren't making for a sustainable business anymore. Especially with covid!
Ben - decoupling from NZ would be a disaster. We don’t have enough depth to add teams to a domestic comp, and we would quickly fall behind the other Tier 1 nations. In Super rugby, it is the cross Tasman clashes that I most look forward to. I am sure that NZRU can be difficult to deal with, but just because we have the RWC and Lions coming up, we don’t need to be d*cks.
Totally agree we don't need to be d*cks about it and perhaps this could be handled in a more diplomatic way. But judging by the success of the Super Rugby AU final last year, I'm not so sure it would be a disaster. Good chance it could be though, but if we get Fiji and Moana into our comp, I think we could build a strong national comp. Or NZ could give us a fair share of the broadcast deal and we stick together.
It'd be remiss of RA not to explore all options. More than anything else in this discussion I think people that people need to understand this isn't an either/or situation. Can do a domestic comp and some sort TT/Pacific comp as well. After the way NZR treated RA with the generous offer to take 2 teams into "their" comp you can understand RA is a bit cheesed off.
Good point Huw and I often fall into the category of "black or white" thinking. Let's hope they strike a balanced broadcast deal quickly, and get on with things.
For me, a stupid threat that Australian Rugby could never carry out. We need to continue to challenge our players against the best and we don't have the depth in Australia. Unfortunately we have nothing to compete with their ITM Cup, and that hurts our possible TV revenue. About time we suck it up and truly work on building grass roots rugby as that will flow all the way to Wallabies.
Are you sure they wouldn't carry it out? We might be left with no option as the current broadcast deal is unworkable.
Benny, I think you're asking the wrong question. I think the right question is "why are Australian Rugby's top brass threatening to tear up Super Rugby".
For me, it's not about the rugby, but rather about commercial brinksmanship with NZR. Australian Rugby want more out of the partnership in terms of broadcast revenue. Previously, with SA in the competition, all broadcast revenue was put into a 'pot' and split equally between the nations. Now, NZR are pocketing approximately ~$90M from their Sky deal whereas RA is only taking home ~$30M from the broadcast deal with Stan. NZR would argue that all is fair in love and war and $90M is the fair market price they've achieved on the open market. This argument is somewhat flawed as Australia contributes equally to the content generation.
Hamish McLennan is correct in saying that NZR have treated us poorly as partners. RA are just putting the boxing gloves to get a better commercial outcome - which will help drive up the $$$ for potential private equity investment.
Wratey! How are you mate? Spot on and TV deal should be based on eyeballs from the corresponding countries and not by on field results. You can't say a country 1/8 our size brought 75% of the value to Super Rugby???
I believe that investment in club rugby and club sides touring NZ like they did years ago would build up the player and supporter base.
We don't have enough tribal support that club rugby builds. Being able to see the bigger names playing amongst people you know builds the game.
In saying that, it would take a couple of years to plan and set up.
Club players then selected for Super Rugby. Have an Australian winner. Then a Trans Tasman series, knock-out if need be.
All monies invested in Super Rugby will not build club. Club rugby needs to be strong to build the top
I agree community rugby needs to be the focus, but I'm not sure how the game funds all the flights to NZ. The game can barely afford for to fly 5 super sides over, and cutting travel costs was the primary reason behind SA, ARG and Japan all being culled.
Walking about from NZ rugby will kill Australian Rugby. A sport that's already struggling in this country. 2022 was much better than 2021 in terms of our competitiveness against the NZ sides, but quite frankly we need NZ to become better footballers. It's about creating a game that people want to watch, that should be the priority. The Super Rugby AU final attracted many fans because we had gone months without live sport to watch. Who wouldn't turn up to watch some live sport after being in lock down. Put on an all Australian game of rugby now and see how many fans turn up? Also have a look at the attendance at the upcoming test matches.
As a die hard rugby fan, I can't figure out why fans aren't attending matches. I love my team and I will watch regardless, but the attendance of thee Brumbies home QF was very low. I'm glad I was at the 2004 home final against the Crusaders, because that atmosphere was unreal, the best crowd I have ever been part of. What does rugby need to do to get that back? I don't think the answer is walking away from super rugby and creating their own domestic competitive. Australian rugby does not have that depth.
Hey Clare! Good point re live sport starvation leading to a big Super Rugby AU final crowd. I don't think walking away is the answer, but not fighting for a fair share of the pie isn't either! But I do question how we've gone about it though.
PS: I was the in crowd too! Where were you sitting? I was behind the goals at the opposite end to where all the 1st half tries where being scored.
RA can chase a fair share differently, not that I have any suggestions as to what that is. Super W is at risk of losing players to the NRLW due to wages, so something needs to be done there too. Is it a lack of sponsorship, or do businesses not see the value in investing in Australian rugby? If that's the case, we need to find out why. Just because we don't have the depth currently doesn't mean we can't create it either. I thought the NRC competition significantly linked club rugby and super rugby. We lose many of our players to overseas clubs for financial reasons, but are we creating enough opportunities for the players who are in Australia?
I was lucky to be in a sideline seat, so I had a good view of all tries and had a devastated Crusaders fan behind me who was in tears after the Brumbies 20 min try haul.
Totally agree that we're in deep trouble of losing Super W players to wages from league, but that makes it all the more important we fight for a bigger slice of the broadcasting pie! More money for Super W and club rugby!!
PS: there wasn't many happy crusaders fans that night. I remember I had to go to work after the game (a doorman at In Blue) and a young Dan Carter came in. Think I said something to him along of the lines of "tough luck mate. you'll have your turn". hahahaha
Both sides need to wake TF up, smell the roses & pull themselves towards themselves.
They need each other if they want their respective domestic & international teams to THRIVE & survive.
Certainly things need to change.
Starting with pulling Japan into the comp & opening the player market between Oz/NZ/ZA/Arg/Japan/Island nations.
Something like say each team can have up to 5 players in their match day 23 from any of the above unions.
And leave ZA teams to play in Europe. Comps based around time zones, not hemispheres makes sense.
Players & teams will have more options/opportunities.
We'll have a comp the envy of the world with commensurate TV revenue.
It's not rocket surgery.
Just saying....
I agree they should pull themselves together, but I think Aus Rugby has woken up and realised we're getting dudded! And I hear what your saying re Japan, ZA and Arg, but all the travel costs just weren't making for a sustainable business anymore. Especially with covid!
Ben - decoupling from NZ would be a disaster. We don’t have enough depth to add teams to a domestic comp, and we would quickly fall behind the other Tier 1 nations. In Super rugby, it is the cross Tasman clashes that I most look forward to. I am sure that NZRU can be difficult to deal with, but just because we have the RWC and Lions coming up, we don’t need to be d*cks.
Totally agree we don't need to be d*cks about it and perhaps this could be handled in a more diplomatic way. But judging by the success of the Super Rugby AU final last year, I'm not so sure it would be a disaster. Good chance it could be though, but if we get Fiji and Moana into our comp, I think we could build a strong national comp. Or NZ could give us a fair share of the broadcast deal and we stick together.
Fiji and Moana will go with NZ. Also, the Super AU final was due to post Covid opening up. We are joining the wrong dots there.
I’m sure Fiji won’t, as their major sponsor is the Australian government.