The brumbies did well to hold out the chiefs for 78 mins! I thought they were oustanding in defence.
RA def needs to have a look at the other codes as to what they are doing and rugby is not. After chatting to an NZ rugby player a few weeks ago, he thought that the NRL just market the game better.
I still prefer watching Union over League but Im hard pressed to convince other people to. The game is still described as boring. Really need to survey the non rugby watchers or the fans who used to be fans and have lost interest, to really gain insight into what it is that needs to be changed. The game is faster but the fans still aren't coming back.
I was going to read all of the comments before I commented but got to yours :-). I agree that the marketing of the game is terrible. Most times you would not even know that the brumbies are playing. Although there are downsides to it (ie individual players becoming brands), I believe that they should amplify some players and make it a really big deal when they get to milestones etc. Like Croker. Really celebrate when they win or have a big game. We need some amplification. People do not like missing out on special occasions! It will take some work but can done. It has slowly been whittled away over the years. We need personalities. Players that people will come and watch not just teams. The Brumbies have quite a few such players. When the marketing cannot even get the start times of the games right when you walk into the ground...there is definitely a problem there. We need to know them, like them and champion them. The movement of players can also be an issue here as the Public do not forgive very easily. I understand why it happens but some things really matter to the core supporters. The game has gradually been undermined by professionalism. My Mum who lives in NZ, says that the NZ teams do not even want to play against Australian teams anymore (mooted in the press from time to time). I wonder though if that is real amongst the players or just press talk? Look at the Drua. That is the passion and excitement we need. I loved watching their games. Complex problems.
I would like to see more content on socials that enables the public to see who the players are as people. I feel that's what will increase investment into the game, emotional investment increases the passion. The Island cultures do this very well and are such a vibe no matter what sport they are participating in.
I'm not sure if it's RA or the 9 network who should be doing better but Rugby doesn't get much coverage on the sports segments of news programs nor is it advertised that the game is on 9 gem. I had quite a few friends tell me they couldn't watch the semi final because they don't have stan, for me to tell tham that the game is on 9 GEM and they can watch it for free. I don't mind that Stan have the rights because no super rugby games were on free to air TV prior to the deal, however people are frustrated that they have to sign up to another streaming service to be able to watch the rugby and I feel as a result fans have been lost.
I feel that the not wanting to play Aussie teams mentality is the press and the fans, because in interactions have had with players from NZ, they haven't once indicated they were wasting their time by playing Australian teams. If they weren't playing Australian teams who will they be playing? I find a lot of kiwi fans are sore winners and losers. When the Wallabies beat the ABS last year a friend said, I don't know if the ABs are playing bad or if the Wallabies are playing well. My response was that the ABs are not the dominant force they once were and that the rest of the world is catching up to them. This was shown in Ireland beating the ABs twice last year, including on home soil.
It'll be interesting to see what the attendance is for the RWC matches in a few months time, I think this will give an indication as to how fans feel about international rugby.
Yep. I agree with a lot of what you have said. I am going to France. To pool games. Attendance will be good as games are effectively sold out. Talking to one of my NZ friends this morning. He is certainly not thinking that the ABs will win....and nor should anyone based on their current form and past experiences. Maybe France??
They did do well, but it sadly was all for naught. NRL def has more money to market the game which helps.
Agree Rugby has deserved its "boring" monikeer, but the refs have done well to speed the game up and make it more entertaining. Will take time for these changes to win people over, but the boring also comes from "NZ always winning". I really worry for the games future Clare
Rugby does have "boring games" and we need to accept it's not everyone's cup of tea. But when it's played in the right spirit.... damn is it good to watch!
If you really want to remove the predictability you would have straight semi finals between the top 4 as it was when the competition started in 1996. It ended that way anyway this year. Disagree totally on your views on the Saffas. There is more than one way to play the game and they are more versatile in that they can play at speed or manipulate the game/referee. NZ played that way a lot during the McCaw Era. Just because Australia traditionally doesn't have the grunt up front doesn't mean theirs is the only way to play. Early in Ben's career when the Wallabies did have a bit more grunt/resilience up front they were able to beat the Saffas over there but got criticized for the way they played. It's not a coincidence that they haven't won in South Africa since that period which was over a decade ago. You have got to have the ability to be versatile and have more than one method to win trophies at all levels. The Chiefs showed that last weekend! It was hardly expansive but they got the job done and no one in NZ cared how they did it!!
For a start it needs to be on Free2Air tv and Fox Sport/Kayo. It will definitely die if they don't sort that out. Ony die hards will pay for Stan to watch it. Secondly for Canberra if Roff and Pocock can't convince Barr the error of his ways regarding the Civic Pool stadium all rectangular sport in Canberra is doomed.
Agree with F2A but not Fox. Stan doing a much better job atm promoting the game than Fox ever did, but hear you that more "casual union" fans have Fox. I love my Stan subscription during rugby season. A new stadium would no doubt be great, but I've given up hope it will ever happen. Gotta focus on things we can control, and not rely on the government.
The answer is sitting directly in front of NZR and RA but they have to move beyond their singular focus on $ first. Bringing in a post season series with the top Japanese clubs, who continue to strengthen, will not only add another element to the competition - a Super Rugby Champions League if you like - but it will also inject new commercial opportunities and an increased fan base. The Crusaders playing Panasonic in Tokyo would draw a large crowd, most likely even more than the 41k who attended this year's JRLO final. Hansen is wrong on one point, Super Rugby isn't dying, it's already dead and has been since the catastrophic own goal made by the administrators (many of whom were, ironically, ex players) who kicked the South Africans out, thereby robbing 'Super' Rugby of much of its credibility, while also ultimately impacting on the performance of NZ and Australia's national teams as a result. That mistake can't be reversed but, by bringing Japanese clubs into the fold, not in Super Rugby (which they don't want!) but as equals in an Asia/Pacific Champions League, NZ and Australia might eventually find themselves with a serious competition on their hands, both on and off the field. It would also be a great first step to bringing Japan into the Rugby Championship in time, once their players have gained confidence playing at club level. After all, the Jaguares (before the administrators kicked them out!!) not only made a final, but also made Los Pumas a far more valuable commodity to the RC as a result.
I don't think SA are a loss to super rugby, I find their rugby quite boring to watch but wanted Japan to stay in it and thought they were great for the comp as was Jaguares, their national team has gone from strength to strength.
Its just the lack of jeopardy. Given 8 out of 12 make the playoffs, and for some teams it was obvious even before the comp started they would make the semis, it lacks the uncertainty South Africa provided. Touring there was bloody hard and they normally had at least one side in the semi/final mix, sometimes more. Not playing them regularly has also eroded our national teams ability to handle the direct hard-nosed physical way they play which has had repercussions at international level. It's not coincidence that France, Ireland and South Africa are now the top 3. The froth and bubble of Super Rugby is not fit for purpose at the next level which was shown last year and will probably be so again at the RWC. While bringing a champions league with japan in won't solve that problem immediately it will add variety to our domestic rugby and that will only improve as the Japanese comp continues to strengthen and more and more northern hemisphere forwards arrive to play in their teams. Nine of the current Bok squad were picked from Japan and its certainly not hurting them performance wise
I'd wait until the test season has been before I get too certain of that. Cant remember too many fast paced RWC games. Besides I Dunno whether you saw the first RC game between the Saffas and All Blacks last year BA but that was played at extreme pace throughout and the Boks blew the All Blacks away. Was kinda strange that they then made 5 changes for the second game at Ellis Park which they lost. Might have been trying to keep Ian Foster in a job 🤔. The All Blacks and Wallabies both struggle against physical opponents who are very direct and absolutely ruthless now and that's largely because our players don't experience it enough anymore with the Saffas no longer in Super Rugby. The surprising thing was that NZ led the way in kicking them out. If/when this world club championship kicks off I suspect administrators, media and fans in this part of the world are gonna get some rude shocks as to where the Trans Tasman teams really rank. We are already seeing it at test level
I think finals format could be changed to top 6 with a preliminary type format similar to the NRL. Making it more competitive for finals spots may help improve game quality. As Ben said, SA do what they can to slow the game down and I've found previous years the Rebels have been known to do the same. A couple of the rowers I work with went to the BRU V Rebels match and hadn't watched a rugby game in 5 years. Said it was boring and I said I remember saying to my friend that the game felt like it was going on forever. Perhaps there needs to be more at stake for teams that deliberately slow the game, given the rules have been changed so that the refs can speed the game up.
Agree on all fronts Matty and Japan is one team I'd consider adding to SR (agree they need to be in the RC). But all the travels cost make playing in RSA not economically feasible and looking back, i wonder how the game afforded to fly us all business class and stay in nice hotels for 3 weeks every year! I'm not sure creditability is super rugby's issue... what creditability does the NRL or AFL have?
Pumas organizers where massivly corrupt mate. Charged the Brumbies $75-80 per head for a boiled egg on toast for brekky, and $100+ to get some pasta at the liaison's mate's restaurant.
Japan doesn't want to be in Super Rugby mate. They are just building up their own league competition, why would they want to ruin that by taking their best team and/,or players out of that to play in a dying competition of someone else's? A post season champions league/series is the way to incorporate Japan, probably being played in its entirety up there to start with to bed the competition in, both from a supporter and commercial basis. In terms of you guys getting stitched up by the Pumas (I assume you mean in Argy but even if you mean the saffa province), surely that is a SANZAAR issue? They should be paying team costs. AFL has the cred domestically because it has both $ & a huge fan base. Perhaps surprisingly NRL is doing OK in both of those spaces too, even internationally. I was in Honolulu last weekend. Place I was staying at had over 900 cable channels but couldn't get the super rugby semi finals on any of them. You can imagine my surprise then when I found one showing the cowboys against the panthers live!! We don't hear that in the current PR spin about our game from NZR and RA but that experience suggests maybe league/nrl has more international pull than we think, and maybe Super Rugby has less? Certainly that is the case domestically as evidenced by two semi finals played at small grounds last weekend and neither selling out
A draft system and possibly a salary cap might even up the competition. Some KPIs for each franchise might also help - it is impossible not to admire what the Crusaders management have achieved over almost three decades. They must be doing something that the other sides aren’t.
What KPIs do you suggest? Massively admire the Crusaders too. NZ would never agree to a salary cap just to help Aussie sides, otherwise all their players would head overseas.
Not sure what the KPIs should be (it was an ultracrepidarian comment) but some are needed to for continuous improvement. Agree that the salary cap for a competition like super rugby wouldn’t work. I don’t think the A league has one.
The game is boring to watch. Too many players on the pitch. To get a more expansive game , dropping to 14 or 13 on each side could really spice it up. Give the smaller / faster players more room.
The brumbies did well to hold out the chiefs for 78 mins! I thought they were oustanding in defence.
RA def needs to have a look at the other codes as to what they are doing and rugby is not. After chatting to an NZ rugby player a few weeks ago, he thought that the NRL just market the game better.
I still prefer watching Union over League but Im hard pressed to convince other people to. The game is still described as boring. Really need to survey the non rugby watchers or the fans who used to be fans and have lost interest, to really gain insight into what it is that needs to be changed. The game is faster but the fans still aren't coming back.
Hi Clare,
I was going to read all of the comments before I commented but got to yours :-). I agree that the marketing of the game is terrible. Most times you would not even know that the brumbies are playing. Although there are downsides to it (ie individual players becoming brands), I believe that they should amplify some players and make it a really big deal when they get to milestones etc. Like Croker. Really celebrate when they win or have a big game. We need some amplification. People do not like missing out on special occasions! It will take some work but can done. It has slowly been whittled away over the years. We need personalities. Players that people will come and watch not just teams. The Brumbies have quite a few such players. When the marketing cannot even get the start times of the games right when you walk into the ground...there is definitely a problem there. We need to know them, like them and champion them. The movement of players can also be an issue here as the Public do not forgive very easily. I understand why it happens but some things really matter to the core supporters. The game has gradually been undermined by professionalism. My Mum who lives in NZ, says that the NZ teams do not even want to play against Australian teams anymore (mooted in the press from time to time). I wonder though if that is real amongst the players or just press talk? Look at the Drua. That is the passion and excitement we need. I loved watching their games. Complex problems.
I would like to see more content on socials that enables the public to see who the players are as people. I feel that's what will increase investment into the game, emotional investment increases the passion. The Island cultures do this very well and are such a vibe no matter what sport they are participating in.
I'm not sure if it's RA or the 9 network who should be doing better but Rugby doesn't get much coverage on the sports segments of news programs nor is it advertised that the game is on 9 gem. I had quite a few friends tell me they couldn't watch the semi final because they don't have stan, for me to tell tham that the game is on 9 GEM and they can watch it for free. I don't mind that Stan have the rights because no super rugby games were on free to air TV prior to the deal, however people are frustrated that they have to sign up to another streaming service to be able to watch the rugby and I feel as a result fans have been lost.
I feel that the not wanting to play Aussie teams mentality is the press and the fans, because in interactions have had with players from NZ, they haven't once indicated they were wasting their time by playing Australian teams. If they weren't playing Australian teams who will they be playing? I find a lot of kiwi fans are sore winners and losers. When the Wallabies beat the ABS last year a friend said, I don't know if the ABs are playing bad or if the Wallabies are playing well. My response was that the ABs are not the dominant force they once were and that the rest of the world is catching up to them. This was shown in Ireland beating the ABs twice last year, including on home soil.
It'll be interesting to see what the attendance is for the RWC matches in a few months time, I think this will give an indication as to how fans feel about international rugby.
Yep. I agree with a lot of what you have said. I am going to France. To pool games. Attendance will be good as games are effectively sold out. Talking to one of my NZ friends this morning. He is certainly not thinking that the ABs will win....and nor should anyone based on their current form and past experiences. Maybe France??
See you there Dianna!
They did do well, but it sadly was all for naught. NRL def has more money to market the game which helps.
Agree Rugby has deserved its "boring" monikeer, but the refs have done well to speed the game up and make it more entertaining. Will take time for these changes to win people over, but the boring also comes from "NZ always winning". I really worry for the games future Clare
I don’t think it’s fair to call rugby boring. Last years men’s NRL final was not exactly a thrilling contest.
Rugby does have "boring games" and we need to accept it's not everyone's cup of tea. But when it's played in the right spirit.... damn is it good to watch!
I don’t see how dodging the kiwi teams will help Australian teams get stronger or more competitive 🤷🏻♂️
There’s four footy codes in Aus and we’re at the bottom
A good showing at the RWC wld be a good start
I don’t know what the answer is though
Do we have to many super rugby teams?
Would an all Aussie comp help?
NRC??
Constant tmo reviews and poor referring don’t help either….. I’m all for player safety but some of these red/yellow cards are ridiculous 🤷🏻♂️
I will continue to watch it in any form…
Hope we can turn the corner soon 👍
Aussies love winners, and the biggest crowd in years was the QLD-ACT Super Rugby Australia final in 2020. 40odd thousand at Suncorp.
Agree all the cards are ridiculous and a good world cup will help, but the games are at god awful times and not many people will watch.
Doubt an NRC will help either, but more needs to be done to promote the club game which seems to be doing well
Great stadium at Suncorp! I love watching rugby there.....the walk in is so much fun!
Agree Ben
I will be in France for all Wallabies pool games ….. can’t wait 😎
Nice! I’m coming over too!
If you really want to remove the predictability you would have straight semi finals between the top 4 as it was when the competition started in 1996. It ended that way anyway this year. Disagree totally on your views on the Saffas. There is more than one way to play the game and they are more versatile in that they can play at speed or manipulate the game/referee. NZ played that way a lot during the McCaw Era. Just because Australia traditionally doesn't have the grunt up front doesn't mean theirs is the only way to play. Early in Ben's career when the Wallabies did have a bit more grunt/resilience up front they were able to beat the Saffas over there but got criticized for the way they played. It's not a coincidence that they haven't won in South Africa since that period which was over a decade ago. You have got to have the ability to be versatile and have more than one method to win trophies at all levels. The Chiefs showed that last weekend! It was hardly expansive but they got the job done and no one in NZ cared how they did it!!
For a start it needs to be on Free2Air tv and Fox Sport/Kayo. It will definitely die if they don't sort that out. Ony die hards will pay for Stan to watch it. Secondly for Canberra if Roff and Pocock can't convince Barr the error of his ways regarding the Civic Pool stadium all rectangular sport in Canberra is doomed.
Agree with F2A but not Fox. Stan doing a much better job atm promoting the game than Fox ever did, but hear you that more "casual union" fans have Fox. I love my Stan subscription during rugby season. A new stadium would no doubt be great, but I've given up hope it will ever happen. Gotta focus on things we can control, and not rely on the government.
The answer is sitting directly in front of NZR and RA but they have to move beyond their singular focus on $ first. Bringing in a post season series with the top Japanese clubs, who continue to strengthen, will not only add another element to the competition - a Super Rugby Champions League if you like - but it will also inject new commercial opportunities and an increased fan base. The Crusaders playing Panasonic in Tokyo would draw a large crowd, most likely even more than the 41k who attended this year's JRLO final. Hansen is wrong on one point, Super Rugby isn't dying, it's already dead and has been since the catastrophic own goal made by the administrators (many of whom were, ironically, ex players) who kicked the South Africans out, thereby robbing 'Super' Rugby of much of its credibility, while also ultimately impacting on the performance of NZ and Australia's national teams as a result. That mistake can't be reversed but, by bringing Japanese clubs into the fold, not in Super Rugby (which they don't want!) but as equals in an Asia/Pacific Champions League, NZ and Australia might eventually find themselves with a serious competition on their hands, both on and off the field. It would also be a great first step to bringing Japan into the Rugby Championship in time, once their players have gained confidence playing at club level. After all, the Jaguares (before the administrators kicked them out!!) not only made a final, but also made Los Pumas a far more valuable commodity to the RC as a result.
I don't think SA are a loss to super rugby, I find their rugby quite boring to watch but wanted Japan to stay in it and thought they were great for the comp as was Jaguares, their national team has gone from strength to strength.
Its just the lack of jeopardy. Given 8 out of 12 make the playoffs, and for some teams it was obvious even before the comp started they would make the semis, it lacks the uncertainty South Africa provided. Touring there was bloody hard and they normally had at least one side in the semi/final mix, sometimes more. Not playing them regularly has also eroded our national teams ability to handle the direct hard-nosed physical way they play which has had repercussions at international level. It's not coincidence that France, Ireland and South Africa are now the top 3. The froth and bubble of Super Rugby is not fit for purpose at the next level which was shown last year and will probably be so again at the RWC. While bringing a champions league with japan in won't solve that problem immediately it will add variety to our domestic rugby and that will only improve as the Japanese comp continues to strengthen and more and more northern hemisphere forwards arrive to play in their teams. Nine of the current Bok squad were picked from Japan and its certainly not hurting them performance wise
I have to agree with Clare here Matty, as ref are now allowed to speed games up, as Saffas would do everything they could to slow games down.
I'd wait until the test season has been before I get too certain of that. Cant remember too many fast paced RWC games. Besides I Dunno whether you saw the first RC game between the Saffas and All Blacks last year BA but that was played at extreme pace throughout and the Boks blew the All Blacks away. Was kinda strange that they then made 5 changes for the second game at Ellis Park which they lost. Might have been trying to keep Ian Foster in a job 🤔. The All Blacks and Wallabies both struggle against physical opponents who are very direct and absolutely ruthless now and that's largely because our players don't experience it enough anymore with the Saffas no longer in Super Rugby. The surprising thing was that NZ led the way in kicking them out. If/when this world club championship kicks off I suspect administrators, media and fans in this part of the world are gonna get some rude shocks as to where the Trans Tasman teams really rank. We are already seeing it at test level
I think finals format could be changed to top 6 with a preliminary type format similar to the NRL. Making it more competitive for finals spots may help improve game quality. As Ben said, SA do what they can to slow the game down and I've found previous years the Rebels have been known to do the same. A couple of the rowers I work with went to the BRU V Rebels match and hadn't watched a rugby game in 5 years. Said it was boring and I said I remember saying to my friend that the game felt like it was going on forever. Perhaps there needs to be more at stake for teams that deliberately slow the game, given the rules have been changed so that the refs can speed the game up.
Agree on all fronts Matty and Japan is one team I'd consider adding to SR (agree they need to be in the RC). But all the travels cost make playing in RSA not economically feasible and looking back, i wonder how the game afforded to fly us all business class and stay in nice hotels for 3 weeks every year! I'm not sure creditability is super rugby's issue... what creditability does the NRL or AFL have?
Pumas organizers where massivly corrupt mate. Charged the Brumbies $75-80 per head for a boiled egg on toast for brekky, and $100+ to get some pasta at the liaison's mate's restaurant.
Japan doesn't want to be in Super Rugby mate. They are just building up their own league competition, why would they want to ruin that by taking their best team and/,or players out of that to play in a dying competition of someone else's? A post season champions league/series is the way to incorporate Japan, probably being played in its entirety up there to start with to bed the competition in, both from a supporter and commercial basis. In terms of you guys getting stitched up by the Pumas (I assume you mean in Argy but even if you mean the saffa province), surely that is a SANZAAR issue? They should be paying team costs. AFL has the cred domestically because it has both $ & a huge fan base. Perhaps surprisingly NRL is doing OK in both of those spaces too, even internationally. I was in Honolulu last weekend. Place I was staying at had over 900 cable channels but couldn't get the super rugby semi finals on any of them. You can imagine my surprise then when I found one showing the cowboys against the panthers live!! We don't hear that in the current PR spin about our game from NZR and RA but that experience suggests maybe league/nrl has more international pull than we think, and maybe Super Rugby has less? Certainly that is the case domestically as evidenced by two semi finals played at small grounds last weekend and neither selling out
A draft system and possibly a salary cap might even up the competition. Some KPIs for each franchise might also help - it is impossible not to admire what the Crusaders management have achieved over almost three decades. They must be doing something that the other sides aren’t.
What KPIs do you suggest? Massively admire the Crusaders too. NZ would never agree to a salary cap just to help Aussie sides, otherwise all their players would head overseas.
Not sure what the KPIs should be (it was an ultracrepidarian comment) but some are needed to for continuous improvement. Agree that the salary cap for a competition like super rugby wouldn’t work. I don’t think the A league has one.
The game is boring to watch. Too many players on the pitch. To get a more expansive game , dropping to 14 or 13 on each side could really spice it up. Give the smaller / faster players more room.