I've been waiting for this post! I went on my lunch break yesterday and had messages from 3 different people, before I had even seen the news. I feel for Rennie, I thought he was building something and quite frankly I don't care how many games we lose in the lead up to a world up, if it means succeeding at the world cup.
Same! Went to check my phone and got bombarded with texts! I know the World Cup matters most, but we gotta win some more things in-between to get momentum. Fans can't just sit around for 3 years waiting for the 4th.
Totally agree with the sentiment BA - but it's exactly what Clive Woodward and the English press were saying about Eddie before he was sacked as the Eng head coach after some less than ideal results. Hopefully Eddie gives us enough of a sugar hit to go deep in the the RWC tournament and make us competitive to win a Bled / Lions series.
I get the sense that RA needed to make the call to secure Eddie, but don't necessarily think it means they don't think Rennie was building to something good.
If they waited until after the RWC Eddie would have been long gone into another role.
It's a shame for Dave Rennie and leaves a sour taste in the mouth, but I hope Eddie does well and I sorta like his cantankerous nature and the way he looks to other codes to find new methods etc.
Nothing against Eddie at all taking over the coaching reigns of the Wallabies again, however I am disappointed for Dave Rennie who is an excellent coach & has built a quality squad of players capable of "overachieving" at the 2023 World Cup.
A change this close to the 2023 World Cup is very poor timing, but no doubt there would have been "pressure" to make the change now rather than wait to post the 2023 World Cup, which is a natural date to make such a change.
Again too many RA Boardroom Politics for my liking, rather than just letting the coach coach!
Agreed and there are a number of recent examples in other codes where there has been patience and support of the coach regardless of performance. That support has helped settle everyone and it was worth it's weight in gold in outcomes. There is no patience anymore, just pressure to succeed. I am not sure that this is the right or healthy approach but get that I am very old fashioned and that our money focussed world demands rewards quickly. It is such a shame as we lose good people (Coaches, managers and players) to this dog eat dog corporate approach to professional sport. (Yikes :-))
I Dianna. I agree re the need for patience and the pressure to succeed is relentless, but I don't think RA has run out of patience with Rennie. I think was more a case of needing to free up space to bring Eddie home.
The "Old & Cranky" one.... Don't get me wrong about Eddie, he is a great replacement. However just let Dave Rennie finish the job that was engaged to do & make the change post RWC.
For mine McLennan and Marinos have taken us into NRL territory with this duplicitous behind the back dealing with Jones while affirming to all and sundry that Rennie will coach the Wallabies to the RWC. All the post tour reviews etc were just window dressing to announce what had already been decided. So much more to rant about but it's done - they've revealed how unreliable their word is and how untrustworthy they are.
Agree Ben, Eddie is a great coach and appreciate your knowledge as much greater than most. I really like his focus on grassroots, the fact he'll be looking over the Women's game, his ability to get us in the eyes of the media, public etc.
Any success will be built on Rennie's hard work over the past few years, building great depth in the squad, introducing players who've shown what great players they are. Andrew Kellaway was gone for all money - what a star he is. Marky Mark - incredible growth under DC and Rennie - Nick Frost, Valetini playing out of their skin. Eddie had better do well as he's been given a great squad with world class players. With all of that - I'm pretty sure he will do well indeed.
Thanks Matt and I do think post the Spiring tour, RA was going to keep Rennie. But when Eddie got sacked, things changed and think the outcome is great for the game. Rennie is an excellent coach and I wish him well, but Eddie is Eddie and I couldn't believe the news was covering Rugby union before tennis on Monday night.... and its January!!!
Between COVID, 5 game Spring tours and injuries Rennie was dealt a poor hand. He seems like a great coach and likable person, yet his winning %, losing to Italy, record loss to the Argies, questionable S&C and continued disciple issues in the team lead to his demise.
Rennie leaves the Wallabies in a better place than when he started. Many players have improved under him and we go into the world cup this year with a number of players who will be vying for best in the world in their positions (Ikitau, Koroibete, Kerevi, Valetini could all make the world XV at the end of the year... hell Nawaqanitawase and Frost have had meteoric rises also).
My prediction (even before Rennie was sacked and Eddie given the job) was for the Wallabies to overachieve and make the semis at the WC 2023. I'm going to have a glass half full and predict:
Yes, it's a shame progress is measured on wins/losses as opposed to player development/improvement. Sure we lost a few games, but I thought we played some good football. Something definitely needs to be done about the poor discipline though.
funny you say that, my current uni unit is research methodology and I'm learning about the different between quantitative and qualitative data and how meaningful qualitative data is because it's based on the lived experience as opposed to numbers.
Hahaha nice! I agree qualitative data is very meaningful but when people want sum/understand something up quickly, numbers are best. Imagine trying to use qualitative data during the pandemic for case totals!
missed you at the reunion mate, and drank far, far too much! I'm with you on the 27 RWC champs... i just needed to measure my optimism!! As they say, it's the hope that kills you.
I believe it gives us our best chance at winning the RWC. Dave is a lovely bloke and no doubt a great coach, however the results are just not there and we need to try something new. It is not a radical move as Eddie is a proven coach at international level. If anyone can make it work...Eddie can.
Hi Ben. I wonder how much difference a coach makes? Whether they become a scapegoat for some of the broader issues that are widely discussed in rugby forums on social media such as lack of grassroots support and pathways. And the reported difficulties with culture with"players being a brand or an individual" rather than being united behind a cause. Which then impacts on the skills, passion and desire. Perhaps you could let me know your opinion having been on the inside as I do not know. It is easier to change a coach than address broader issues. I personally thought Dave Rennie was doing a good job and everything felt more settled despite the challenges that he faced with injuries. (Perhaps this is also just an illusion). I am sure that Eddie will do a good job. The coach gig is very tough!!!!
The coach makes a huge difference and responsible for shaping the team culture. But they aren't the only reason a team does well or not. Bloody oath it's tough and Eddie has proven he can take the bumps and bruises that come with it!
Agree, tough on Rennie to move at this point. But if there wasn't a World Cup looming I'm sure the axe would have dropped last year.
Australia needs to define its style, select and prepare players accordingly to produce performances we can all be proud of. Don't think we saw any consistency in terms of strategy or selection last year.
Eddie's a smart cookie and his return is a shot of adrenalin.
The game's in Aus has got big events coming up, hopefully some investment, a shot of adrenalin with Eddie coming back... and what do you think it needs next?
Rugby in Aus needs a few things but let's keep it simple. An identity will help. Let's find a game style we can embrace. Turinui said some things last week that made sense: we can't compete with NZ on talent and size alone - we need to be creative.
And, I've noticed this since taking my 8yo to Super Rugby, there's way too much time wasted. Literally minutes are wasted at scrums, lineouts, TMOs etc. Let's insert more footy into the footy.
Well my Rugby WhatsApp groups are alight and not with whinging about the state of the code, refereeing etc. So thats a good thing.
I think it was a good move by RA as it had to be done now and with no delay. I think he gives us a better chance at the RWC. I could not see us getting through the quarters on our current trajectory. I also liked Dave Rennie but grew concerned with the lack of a coherent plan around 10.
It looked like there was a bit of a fly half merry go round and even at the end of the spring tour we were no closer to jumping off it. Seemed a risky way to deal with young talent.
What are your thoughts on Eddie?
Were you ever coached by him?
Has he learned better people management skills? It seems to be a constant criticism.
I've been waiting for this post! I went on my lunch break yesterday and had messages from 3 different people, before I had even seen the news. I feel for Rennie, I thought he was building something and quite frankly I don't care how many games we lose in the lead up to a world up, if it means succeeding at the world cup.
Same! Went to check my phone and got bombarded with texts! I know the World Cup matters most, but we gotta win some more things in-between to get momentum. Fans can't just sit around for 3 years waiting for the 4th.
Totally agree with the sentiment BA - but it's exactly what Clive Woodward and the English press were saying about Eddie before he was sacked as the Eng head coach after some less than ideal results. Hopefully Eddie gives us enough of a sugar hit to go deep in the the RWC tournament and make us competitive to win a Bled / Lions series.
I get the sense that RA needed to make the call to secure Eddie, but don't necessarily think it means they don't think Rennie was building to something good.
If they waited until after the RWC Eddie would have been long gone into another role.
It's a shame for Dave Rennie and leaves a sour taste in the mouth, but I hope Eddie does well and I sorta like his cantankerous nature and the way he looks to other codes to find new methods etc.
Oh and out in the semis in 2023 RWC.
2-1 lions win
2027 RWC champions
I agree except a 2-1 Wallabies win!
Actually that's what I meant! I meant the Wallabies will get a 2-1 Lions series win
Nothing against Eddie at all taking over the coaching reigns of the Wallabies again, however I am disappointed for Dave Rennie who is an excellent coach & has built a quality squad of players capable of "overachieving" at the 2023 World Cup.
A change this close to the 2023 World Cup is very poor timing, but no doubt there would have been "pressure" to make the change now rather than wait to post the 2023 World Cup, which is a natural date to make such a change.
Again too many RA Boardroom Politics for my liking, rather than just letting the coach coach!
Agreed and there are a number of recent examples in other codes where there has been patience and support of the coach regardless of performance. That support has helped settle everyone and it was worth it's weight in gold in outcomes. There is no patience anymore, just pressure to succeed. I am not sure that this is the right or healthy approach but get that I am very old fashioned and that our money focussed world demands rewards quickly. It is such a shame as we lose good people (Coaches, managers and players) to this dog eat dog corporate approach to professional sport. (Yikes :-))
I Dianna. I agree re the need for patience and the pressure to succeed is relentless, but I don't think RA has run out of patience with Rennie. I think was more a case of needing to free up space to bring Eddie home.
Which Doyley is this?!?!
I hate politics too, but having Eddie back is as great result. But agree the timing is poor.
The "Old & Cranky" one.... Don't get me wrong about Eddie, he is a great replacement. However just let Dave Rennie finish the job that was engaged to do & make the change post RWC.
Which old and crack one? Easts or Owls?
For mine McLennan and Marinos have taken us into NRL territory with this duplicitous behind the back dealing with Jones while affirming to all and sundry that Rennie will coach the Wallabies to the RWC. All the post tour reviews etc were just window dressing to announce what had already been decided. So much more to rant about but it's done - they've revealed how unreliable their word is and how untrustworthy they are.
Agree Ben, Eddie is a great coach and appreciate your knowledge as much greater than most. I really like his focus on grassroots, the fact he'll be looking over the Women's game, his ability to get us in the eyes of the media, public etc.
Any success will be built on Rennie's hard work over the past few years, building great depth in the squad, introducing players who've shown what great players they are. Andrew Kellaway was gone for all money - what a star he is. Marky Mark - incredible growth under DC and Rennie - Nick Frost, Valetini playing out of their skin. Eddie had better do well as he's been given a great squad with world class players. With all of that - I'm pretty sure he will do well indeed.
Thanks Matt and I do think post the Spiring tour, RA was going to keep Rennie. But when Eddie got sacked, things changed and think the outcome is great for the game. Rennie is an excellent coach and I wish him well, but Eddie is Eddie and I couldn't believe the news was covering Rugby union before tennis on Monday night.... and its January!!!
Between COVID, 5 game Spring tours and injuries Rennie was dealt a poor hand. He seems like a great coach and likable person, yet his winning %, losing to Italy, record loss to the Argies, questionable S&C and continued disciple issues in the team lead to his demise.
Rennie leaves the Wallabies in a better place than when he started. Many players have improved under him and we go into the world cup this year with a number of players who will be vying for best in the world in their positions (Ikitau, Koroibete, Kerevi, Valetini could all make the world XV at the end of the year... hell Nawaqanitawase and Frost have had meteoric rises also).
My prediction (even before Rennie was sacked and Eddie given the job) was for the Wallabies to overachieve and make the semis at the WC 2023. I'm going to have a glass half full and predict:
1) Semis at RWC23
2) Series loss to Lions 2-1
3) Final at home RWC27
Yes, it's a shame progress is measured on wins/losses as opposed to player development/improvement. Sure we lost a few games, but I thought we played some good football. Something definitely needs to be done about the poor discipline though.
People love data to make decisions and what's a better way to quantitatively rate a coach's performance?
funny you say that, my current uni unit is research methodology and I'm learning about the different between quantitative and qualitative data and how meaningful qualitative data is because it's based on the lived experience as opposed to numbers.
Hahaha nice! I agree qualitative data is very meaningful but when people want sum/understand something up quickly, numbers are best. Imagine trying to use qualitative data during the pandemic for case totals!
Good picks! Agree RWC but going for 2-1 win vs Lions and 100% the final - everything crossed for the Cup too.
Wratey!!! How are ya mate? Did you go to the 20 year reunion?
I think you summed it up perfectly except: Wallabies to beat the lions 2-1 and win the final 27!
missed you at the reunion mate, and drank far, far too much! I'm with you on the 27 RWC champs... i just needed to measure my optimism!! As they say, it's the hope that kills you.
Took some major Cahonies by the Rugby AU board.
I'm guessing it was a now or never decision that had to be made, and time will tell if it was the right call.
I feel for Dave Rennie, it seems he was in a no win situation.
Agreed and I feel for Rennie too. Terrific coach and great guy.
I believe it gives us our best chance at winning the RWC. Dave is a lovely bloke and no doubt a great coach, however the results are just not there and we need to try something new. It is not a radical move as Eddie is a proven coach at international level. If anyone can make it work...Eddie can.
Agreed.
His issue is post RWC.
Eddie Wallabies went up to 2nd place in 2003RWC Australia. Then RA extended contract until 2007, but sacked in mid-term.
Eddie England went up to 2nd place in 2019 Japan. Then RFU extended contract until 2023, but sacked in mid-term.
Will his history repeat ? What happens twice happens three times ?
Terrific question Koji and one I asked here: https://benalexander.substack.com/p/eddie-jones-sacking/comments
3rd time lucky?
Dan McKellar must be gutted. Will be interesting to see how they go together
Hi Ben. I wonder how much difference a coach makes? Whether they become a scapegoat for some of the broader issues that are widely discussed in rugby forums on social media such as lack of grassroots support and pathways. And the reported difficulties with culture with"players being a brand or an individual" rather than being united behind a cause. Which then impacts on the skills, passion and desire. Perhaps you could let me know your opinion having been on the inside as I do not know. It is easier to change a coach than address broader issues. I personally thought Dave Rennie was doing a good job and everything felt more settled despite the challenges that he faced with injuries. (Perhaps this is also just an illusion). I am sure that Eddie will do a good job. The coach gig is very tough!!!!
The coach makes a huge difference and responsible for shaping the team culture. But they aren't the only reason a team does well or not. Bloody oath it's tough and Eddie has proven he can take the bumps and bruises that come with it!
Agree, tough on Rennie to move at this point. But if there wasn't a World Cup looming I'm sure the axe would have dropped last year.
Australia needs to define its style, select and prepare players accordingly to produce performances we can all be proud of. Don't think we saw any consistency in terms of strategy or selection last year.
Eddie's a smart cookie and his return is a shot of adrenalin.
The game's in Aus has got big events coming up, hopefully some investment, a shot of adrenalin with Eddie coming back... and what do you think it needs next?
Rugby in Aus needs a few things but let's keep it simple. An identity will help. Let's find a game style we can embrace. Turinui said some things last week that made sense: we can't compete with NZ on talent and size alone - we need to be creative.
And, I've noticed this since taking my 8yo to Super Rugby, there's way too much time wasted. Literally minutes are wasted at scrums, lineouts, TMOs etc. Let's insert more footy into the footy.
Thats great, its about time they started winning a few games!
Can see him lasting 5 years…..
Big call indeed.
Michael took time out! Will he come back?
Michael Hooper? He'll be back!
Owls... did think there was so many!
Well my Rugby WhatsApp groups are alight and not with whinging about the state of the code, refereeing etc. So thats a good thing.
I think it was a good move by RA as it had to be done now and with no delay. I think he gives us a better chance at the RWC. I could not see us getting through the quarters on our current trajectory. I also liked Dave Rennie but grew concerned with the lack of a coherent plan around 10.
It looked like there was a bit of a fly half merry go round and even at the end of the spring tour we were no closer to jumping off it. Seemed a risky way to deal with young talent.
What are your thoughts on Eddie?
Were you ever coached by him?
Has he learned better people management skills? It seems to be a constant criticism.