A chat with Carl Hayman

All Black #1000

Sep 14, 2022

Welcome to a series of interviews with people who’ve had a big impact on my life.

And to kick things off, I caught up with the player I most aspired to be like, All Black number #1000… Carl Hayman.

Arguably Rugby’s greatest ever prop, I feel lucky to have interviewed Carl and feel even luckier to call him a friend, after playing together for the World VX in 2015.

Carl was recently diagnosed with early onset Dementia at age 42, and we chatted about how he realised something was wrong, retirement, and what he thinks the game needs to do to protect its players.

What’s your favourite Rugby memory?

The wonderful friendships I made and the people involved in the game. From that volunteer everyone has in their club that helps with the kit in his spare time, to supporters, coaches and fellow players.

On the field, loads of great memories including my first test vs Samoa in 2001, and the run of European Championships with Toulon playing in a World XV with some of our generation's greats.

What’s been the toughest part about retiring from Rugby?

The lack of purpose and identity in the beginning. Playing rugby had become who I was, and it took me a while to find my new path. I didn't miss the spotlight, but I missed the physical exertion of sport and the community of players and friends.

Through no one’s fault, the phone calls would become less and less as people move on with their own lives, and retirement at times is a lonely place.

There were also challenges of now being at the bottom of the heap when you start a new job. I remember my first-day coaching and not being able to operate my computer.

For years in our rugby life success was deemed by stats, accolades and of course, winning.

Could failure be a success because I was learning? It was hard to grasp this concept at first, but I really had to change the way I looked at things, and how I’d been conditioned over 20 odd years of competitive rugby.

It was also the beginning of problems with my brain health, which compounded a lot of these issues.

I’ve been following your battle with concussion and dementia. When did you know something was wrong?

I played a huge amount of footy and never really got injured. I had one really bad concussion against Australia in which I made a full recovery. But the repetition of 10-11 months of Rugby a year for 20 years, and all the sub-concussive hits I took are causing these issues.

Looking back, I now understand I was having emotional regulation problems late in my playing career. Soon after retiring, I noticed memory loss and I was having difficulty following conversations. The turning point where I knew something was wrong is when I was renewing my son's passport and I could not recall his middle name, I sat on the phone searching for 20-30 seconds and said '“Sorry… I’ve forgotten his name”.

This developed into anxiety, depression and constant pressure headaches. A real nasty spiral. Ultimately, I had to do something which led me to seek medical advice.

What do you say to people who think all the red cards are making the game soft and ruining it as a spectacle?

I think the game’s governing body has got it wrong with the directives it’s giving to the refs.

Yes, they must protect the players, but we are now seeing red cards for genuine accidents on the field. Rugby is essentially a combat sport and things happen really fast. You don't always have time to react. Foul play should always be punished, but what we are seeing is not great for the game.

I would prefer to see the game refed as it always has been, and the energy being directed towards enforcing the HIA and increasing the stand-down period post a concussion, looking at player monitoring of collisions during a training week, and reducing the total amount of collisions these players put themselves through in a calendar year.

But what is a safe level to start with? And I feel the cards and HIA are not addressing the fundamental issue of player welfare.

If you could go back, what would you tell yourself at the start of your career?

It's only a game and you’re not indestructible. Look after yourself and work on a plan B while you’re playing, so you have control of when to say “enough is enough”.

Got a message for anyone doing it tough?

Keep moving! Exercise in any form is great for you (500m is better than nothing) and better still, move with other people.

Don't isolate yourself. Pick up the phone and call a mate or a loved one.

Make positive action the priority for the day, and plan it. A bath, relaxation, help someone or a charity out. Tell someone how you feel about them, the possibilities are endless. Then plan another one for tomorrow. This will create positivity in your life. Keep growing it!

“When we change the way we look at things, the things we look at change”- Dr Wayne Dyer.

Meaning there are positives in any situation. If life is not going well, it’s because it’s trying to send you on a new and exciting path. It's easy to dwell on things, but a constant battle in life is to change the way we look at situations, and try to find the positives in everything.

Thanks for your time Carl. All the best and up the Wallabies!!!

Read more about Carl’s journey with dementia below.